Unlocking Business Freedom Through Effective Recruitment

Pat Mancuso is the CEO of Mancuso Consulting Group and a highly recognized thought leader dedicated to helping CEOs, business owners, and entrepreneurs maximize their potential through coaching and consulting. After over 30 years of working with company owners, leaders, and sales teams, Pat has over 25,000 hours of coaching and consulting experience. As a serial entrepreneur who has launched multiple successful companies, Pat understands how to sustainably scale a business. He helps businesses improve their leadership and performance through a proprietary system, RSTMM® — Recruit, Select, Train, Manage, and Motivate, which enables companies to select, train, manage, and motivate the right people in the right positions.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

[2:48] Why business owners should shift their mindset before entering the hiring process
[7:38] The importance of removing bias from hiring systems
[11:57] How to leverage behavioral assessments in the hiring process
[20:03] Mitigating the cost of a subpar hire
[25:23] What are the components of an effective hiring system?
[30:10] Pat Mancuso shares how continuous recruitment enhances business growth
[31:56] Evaluating candidate behaviors to determine effective role and company fit

In this episode…

Many business owners rush to hire talent only to regret the decision later when the candidate doesn’t align with the company. Finding talent for your business isn’t just about filling a vacancy quickly; it requires a careful and strategic approach. How can you strike the balance between urgency and attentiveness in the hiring process?

According to leadership consultant Pat Mancuso, hiring can either bridge the gap between financial success and personal freedom or create operational challenges within a business. Before making any hire, entrepreneurs must develop a standardized recruitment system that reduces bias and improves hiring decisions. This system should involve conducting behavioral assessments on potential hires to determine role fit and team dynamics. You should also train leaders on utilizing this system effectively to avoid costly turnovers. Through proactive recruitment, business owners can enable swift, strategic growth opportunities.

In the latest Destination Business Freedom episode, Pat Mancuso is interviewed by Chad Franzen of Rise25 about techniques for successful hiring. Pat discusses the long-term costs of a poor hire, the crucial components of an effective hiring system, and how to evaluate candidate behaviors.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Quotable Moments:

"To make a great hire, there's two parts of the equation, and if you shortchange either part, you're almost guaranteed a bad hire."
"If I meet you in an interview and I like you, is that emotion or logic?"
"The cost of a bad hire is often underestimated by hundreds of thousands of dollars by most business owners."
"There's never a shortage of opportunity, only a shortage of talent."
"Behavior isn't right or wrong, bad or good; it fits certain roles better than others."

Action Steps:

Implement a structured hiring system: This helps avoid biases and rushed decisions, laying the groundwork for better-fit hires.
Regularly conduct behavioral assessments for potential candidates: Enables understanding of how one's inherent tendencies can drive success in specific roles and fit within a team.
Validate assessment results with candidates: Opens the door to impactful life changes by helping individuals understand and embrace their behavioral styles.
Keep an entrepreneurial mindset open to talent: Always be on the lookout for exceptional individuals who can drive your business forward, even without an immediate opening.
Create a process for ongoing talent development and acquisition: By consistently engaging with potential candidates, businesses avoid the scramble associated with urgent hiring needs and build a robust team ready for growth opportunities.

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by the Mancuso Consulting Group, a go-to resource for entrepreneurs, CEOs, and business owners dedicated to personal and business growth.

Our team of experts has coached, consulted, and trained over 15,000 entrepreneurs, C-suite leaders, and business owners in areas of sales, leadership, organizational development, and personal growth. Additionally, Pat Mancuso has launched multiple multimillion-dollar business ventures, giving him a firsthand understanding of entrepreneurs' daily challenges.

At the Mancuso Consulting Group, we are committed to exploring innovative ways to help businesses and leaders grow their people and improve their bottom lines.

To learn how the Mancuso Consulting Group can help you unlock your full potential, visit www.themancusomethod.com, email us at pat@themancusomethod.com, or call 651-503-7355.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:02

Welcome to Destination Business Freedom, hosted by Pat Mancuso. Join us as we explore success strategies and hacks from leading entrepreneurs helping you bridge the gap between financial success and personal freedom. Your journey starts here.

Pat Mancuso 0:23

Thanks for joining us today on Destination Business Freedom podcast. I am Pat Mancuso, the host of our podcast where I interview thought leaders, entrepreneurs and business owners who have either exited their business or on the journey. My goal is to help small to medium-sized businesses close the gap between their finances and their freedom and ultimately define and arrive at that destination and exit their business, whatever that might look like for them. I'm excited today that Chad from Rise25 is with us, and we're going to have an amazing conversation, and Chad's going to introduce that conversation to us. However, before we get started, I do want to introduce a message from our sponsor. This episode today is brought to you by the Mancuso Consulting Group, where we are committed to helping entrepreneurs and business owners close that gap between their finances and their freedom. The Mancuso Method was created by Pat Mancuso, and it encompasses over 30 years as an owner of multiple businesses, and has worked with 1000s of entrepreneurs and business owners, he helps them rise above the daily grind and arrive at their desired destination, which is the reason most business owners started their business in the first place. When you go to www to make whosome method.com and take the short assessment, you will receive a powerful report with your personal roadmap to your destination. Additionally, Pat will provide you a 30 minute free consultation and review that roadmap and offer working with business owners and taking the 30,000 hours of consulting into account to help you arrive at that destination. Pat believes so much in the power of this process that he guarantees he will add at least $10,000 value to your 30 minute call, otherwise it will write you a check for $500 on the spot, no questions asked. When you're ready to move forward for its finances and freedom and away from frustration, go to www.themancusomethod.com take the assessment and schedule your call with Pat today. Hey, Chad, welcome to the call.

Chad Franzen 2:22

Hey, thanks so much. Pat, great to be here. I'm looking forward to talking with you. Hey, today we're going to talk about hiring, and kind of the approach that business owners do take and should take when it comes to hiring. And you know, I'd like to dive into maybe the mindset of a business owner. Why is it important for a business owner to think about, maybe to step back and think about their mindset before they go into hiring a candidate, especially for an important role. You know,

Pat Mancuso 2:48

Chad, we could be here for hours. This is something I'm very passionate about. I have conversations almost on a daily basis with business owners, either that we have a consulting relationship with, or just in daily conversations. And so it's a topic that's very passionate to me, and the reason that I'm so passionate about it is there's two parts to this equation. There's the business owner, the entrepreneur, or who's ever hiring an individual to come into their organization? Then it's the individual they're hiring to come in. And unfortunately, I think in some cases, maybe a lot of cases, there's not a conversation, if you may, that happens that talks about both. You know, if I'm a business owner and I have to fill out a need, we call it, in other words, somebody quits, somebody resigns, or maybe it just, frankly, you know, I need additional horsepower because I'm doing the job and I can't do it anymore. I fill out a need. And many times, when people fill out, fill out a need, and I'll define what that means. Fill out a need is I don't care who I get. I just need to get somebody so I can take it off my plate that's filling out a need. And when you do that, just as an example, that's not really focused on both parties, it's focused on one party. So you know, as we start talking about this mindset topic, we you have to understand to make a great hire, there's two parts to the equation, and if you shortchange either part of the equation, I can almost 100% guarantee you're going to make a bad hire that really is going to cost you more money than you expect. So it has to start with, from the beginning, a commitment to the mindset of, I need to have a system, and I need to follow the system and so if a business owner, and when a business owner doesn't do this, they ultimately were going to pay the price for this down the road. And Chad, I would, I would say this, this is not just in hiring people. Let's even back up in front of that. I am an example, and I can't tell you how many people I talk with who are. Also examples of the issue that I'm referencing, and that is this, you get into business. Let's say we're sitting around a campfire, and you and I are having a conversation, and we come up with this great idea for a new bourbon, and you get excited about it, and I get excited about it. We go, okay, come on, Chad, let's go. We're going to build Chad's bourbon. And then we get into business together, and that's an example of how a business relationship slash partnership can go awry from the beginning. Because although you and I know each other, and maybe we've known each other for a long time, we really don't have a process that we would say, selecting each other as the right partner. So we get into this business relationship, it's all good in the beginning, by the way, because everything is all good in the beginning, until something puts pressure on something, and you really see the true perspectives of things come out. So this isn't just for hiring. Our process. When we go into organizations, in some cases, we're actually in conference rooms with partners, investors in a business, who are not seeing eye to eye. Maybe one wants to exit, one doesn't. One wants to sell, one doesn't. And so in a lot of those circumstances are because they really didn't have a commitment in the beginning to have a process to decide, should we be partners? You know, just kind of in a fun side. Imagine if there was a better process for partners selecting each other in relationships and personal relationships. How much lower we could maybe have the divorce rate because we don't actually know who we're getting into business with, or a relationship with, from a behavioral perspective, because that, you know, again, those things happen sitting around a campfire,

Chad Franzen 6:47

right? So, how can, how can having a system then help you?

Pat Mancuso 6:53

Yeah, you know, that's such a great question, and it there's, there's two parts to it. In my opinion, there's probably more parts, but there's two big parts. First, I have this saying human beings are imperfect, so we're imperfect human being, and so without a system, what happens is that those imperfections, which are really amazing things about human beings, but those imperfections come into the equation. For example, let's say that I meet you on an interview, just like we're doing right now, and I actually like you. I think you're cool, I think you're humorous, I think you're funny. You got a good track record. I actually think I could work with you on a daily basis. Now, is that emotion or logic?

Chad Franzen 7:37

It doesn't sound like logic.

Pat Mancuso 7:38

Yeah, no, it doesn't sound like logic and its emotion. Well, that emotion is not bad or good, but it's a bias. And what happens is that when we don't have a system, we typically will do things, hire people, entrepreneurially. And I always use this, this as an example, again, from my personal experience in growing organizations and also talking with others and consulting with others, who have done it that when you start the business, who told you how to train, you know how to hire, who actually showed you a system. Have you ever personally been in a system where you were hired for an opportunity and actually taken through it, saw the benefits, utilized it in the in the role that you played in the organization. And most people would say, No, I've never actually been in a system like that, or experienced that. So first, it's bias, right? It's, it's, it's a bias. And we, we all have it. I can't tell you how many times over the past 20 years that I've talked with somebody who made a bad hire, okay? And bad hire doesn't mean it was a bad individual. It just means they were the wrong individual for that role that they were they put them in. So let's be clear, they're they're great human beings, but as we assess that bad hire, when we go backwards, and we like if they have a system, then we start tearing apart the system and go, Okay, where did we make the mistake? I would say 95% of the time it's going to be in the mistake in the system. And I'll come back that a second, but the 5% of the time is it just was one of those things that didn't work out again. It's the imperfections of life and the imperfections of human beings. You follow the system. You didn't, you know, miss anything, skip anything, and it just didn't work out. But 95% of the time, it's because they they short circuit the system, they they don't do something either, because they're in a hurry, because they've got bias, because they think they know what they know, and they really don't know. And so what happens is that those mistakes will come out at some point because of how human beings operate in their daily life, in their roles. And so so that that without having a system, we're doing it entrepreneurial. Be and and therefore make mistakes. Now, the question is, is, how impactful to the business of this are those mistakes? How impactful to our customer are those mistakes? And in are, are we willing to slow down enough, to speed up, to put a system in place that we can live by, that we can have conversations with, you know, think of it this way, Chad so my daughter, the my youngest, said the other day to me that she wanted to learn Korean. And I said, Well, that's cool, you know, to learn she's 16, and she's all into the Korean music and k pop and and in Imagine if she went to Korea and didn't know the language, and so she'd be talking one language, they'd be talking another language. Well, that's what happens in organization. When there's no consistent language to talk, then what happens is, particularly leaders leading others. There's no common ground, so they do it entrepreneurially. I had a consulting conversation yesterday with a client who came to our conversation. We're implementing systems in their organization, and they're still at the early stages of learning this, but I've been doing this so long, and we had behavioral assessments of their team. And so he brought this conversation to the table, and he says, Hey, Pat, I've got this issue. I think I've got some ideas on how to solve it, you know, I'd like to talk to you about it. So as we probe through it, what we discovered is he had done some things entrepreneurially, which we already knew. That's why he brought us in. But the fact is, is he didn't see how those entrepreneurial steps were impacting where he is today, and now, ultimately, he's got a talented individual, but they either, you know, we may either lose them, or they may lose somebody else because of the challenges in that relationship.

Chad Franzen 11:51

You talked about behavioral assessments. What? What does that involve? And why is that important? Yeah,

Pat Mancuso 11:57

you know the thing that I would say, Chad, and you know, I hear this all the time, and I struggle with it, to be honest with you, and I'm not again. I'm an imperfect human being, but I'm very passionate about this process. I proprietary process because I've been around it for 20 years. I've also seen it used in organizations. Keller Williams Realty used this in their organization for about 15 years. I was a part of training and delivering it, and so I'm very passionate about a process that's based upon a behavioral assessment. Now I'm going to define behavior in my world, in my frame of mind, and others may hear it and disagree with it and it's okay. There's two things that that people operate from, and they operate from a behavioral perspective, we call it, in their zone, their comfort level, and then they operate in a perspective of their environment. And so many times people confuse, in my opinion, personality versus behavior. And the reason I say they confuse it is because when I look at myself, and I've done a number of personality assessments and a number of behavioral assessments, and the first thing that I would caution anybody listening to this, and I'll expand on this, and why it's so important, is they're never a test. It's an assessment. Because when you use the test, when you took a personality test, then Chad, when we think test, what do we think?

Chad Franzen 13:28

You're just writing stuff down.

Pat Mancuso 13:29

Well, writing stuff down. But then we think, pass or fail, right? Did I pass the test or did I fail the test? And think about this just for a second. From a member, there's two parties to the conversation, right? There's the potential candidate, the employee that we may be considering hiring, and then there's the employer. Let's go to the candidate's side, and we call them a candidate until they actually become an employee, because that's what they are. Let's say you give a candidate an assessment, and then you don't follow up with them after the assessment. It is likely that one of the things they could consider is, well, I didn't pass the assessment, and therefore that's why I didn't get the job, or didn't get the opportunity for the job, or didn't get to go to the next perspective. So if you are an entrepreneur and you're following any system and you're utilizing any behavioral tool, you have to validate with them. I think it's so important to sit down with that candidate and really share things with them that could be life changing. I love that for me, and what we do and how we teach others to do. If I give you a behavioral assessment, I am going to sit down and spend 30 minutes with you minimum, and validate it. What I mean by validated is this, I'm going to go through that assessment and I'm going to get your agreement on whatever the results of the assessment are. And if you have a valid quality assessment that's based upon science which it should be, then what happens is that, unless there's some manipulation of the candidate, which in our assessment process, we can pay. Pick up those things, that assessment is typically who they are from the behavioral science perspective, but now we've got to get them to buy into that so validating it actually empowers the candidate to truly understand who they are and how they function and where they function at a high level. So I'll use me as an example for quite a long time in my life. I was always characterized as aggressive. Oh my gosh, Pat. You're so aggressive, you're so assertive, you're so intense, you're you're so all these things. And until I actually was engaged in this process by the creator of the process, Bane Henin, who's now deceased, and his son, Brett, has taken over the organization that we have the licensing with. Until Bane sat down with me and validated my Ava, it was like, he calls it like a bird in a cage. I was a bird in a cage where people said I was this, this and this. And I didn't understand that this, this, this was actually very attractive skills that somebody would possess if they were doing what I was doing, which was being an entrepreneur. Now, each role we play may require different behavioral tools and in behavior, but what that did is it allowed me, Chad, to be who I was without worrying about what other people thought. And so when you don't validate that behavior, you actually, you actually lose an opportunity to impact their lives. And you know, I was on a call yesterday, and I'm, I'm going to be fortunate enough to be partnered with somebody who is an amazing, best selling author by the name of Jack Canfield. And you probably know Jack, he and Mark Victor Hansen were the co authors of the chicken soup series, and I'm partnering with Jack to author a book. And in that interview yesterday, as we were going through there was a question that was asked as part of the prelim to the selection process. And the question was, is it Pat. Why do you want to do this book with Jack? And I said, because I want to impact people's lives. And so I say that to go back to why would somebody need to validate behavior? Because you have an opportunity to impact somebody's life. You have an opportunity to potentially share something with them that for years they've carried forward because someone told them something, or someone gave them an assessment and never took the time to assess them. The other reason that behavioral assessments are very important is now you have common language, because if you behavioral assess, particularly the key leaders in the organization, who lead others and now and you're putting them in the right roles, let's be clear, behaviorally, you're putting in the right roles, then what happens is that when we have people issues, we can have a common conversation. We can have a common language based upon fundamentals, based upon absolute logic and science versus entrepreneurial or emotional. So having those behavioral assessments as the foundation is so powerful in so many ways. Now I do want to add this, and then I'll pause. Is that behavior isn't right or wrong, bad or good? I think sometimes, you know, people misinterpret, misunderstand, or have this perspective that there is bad behavior, but really, those are bad choices, right? Like, if somebody decides to commit a crime that was just a bad choice demonstrated as bad behavior. But the point is, no one should ever tell someone that their behavior, who they are, is bad. It's not bad or good, right or wrong, it's just their behavior. Now, their behavior, though, fits certain roles better than it does fit others, and that's really what you want to do, is understand where is that behavioral zone when you put somebody in that what we call environment, that environment, the right environment, allows them to perform at a high level with without, what I call friction. In other words, they perform at a high level. They do it unconsciously, like they don't even know what they're doing. They make it look so easy. And of course, no job is ever you know, the same every day, every minute. But the point is, when you put someone in, someone in their behavioral zone, that's a match for the role, the skills, the objectives that they need to achieve, they're going to have high job performance, high job satisfaction. They're actually going to be an amazing talent for you that you can grow within the organization. So behavioral assessments, as you can tell I'm very passionate about, are very important for a number of reasons to the organization. So,

Chad Franzen 19:43

You know, let's say, let's say I'm an entrepreneur. I have a, I have a role that I need to fill. And I've heard you talk about, you know, I need to have a system. I need to do behavioral assessments. And I'm thinking I just need to fill, you know, I still think I just need to fill a stick and roll. Um, what are the costs of having that attitude?

Pat Mancuso 20:03

Well, so we actually, when we take up organizations through our training, we actually do a piece on the cost of a bad we call it the cost of a bad hire. And I will tell you, there's two parts. There's intangible and tangible. And most business owners, when we go through the training and we do this piece of the process in the, you know, in the rooms that we do, in the training that we do, they underestimate the cost of a bad hire by hundreds of 1000s of dollars. So let me give you an example of this. I like to use real world examples that I live my life in. So we're out. I took my youngest, my 16 year old, out to the Mall of America, which is, you know, nationally, world National Green Mountain Mall. And there's two organizations that have space rented in the mall, and that mall is not inexpensive for rent. It's a very high rent district. They get a lot of traffic there. Now these two national brands, which, you know, I'm not going to throw them under the bus, but we'll just say one was a very popular clothing national brand, and the other one was a very popular based cosmetics national brand. And we were in both brands during our visit, during our state, and there were two things that absolutely stuck out to me based upon experience. First, we go into the clothing brand, and they have a dual level store, and they have two checkout counters, and my daughter wants to buy a couple of things, and so we get those to go to the checkout. In both of the checkout lines, there were at least 20 people in line, and there was one cashier in both levels of the store. Now for me as a business consultant, I look at that and my first response is, where is the leader? Where is the manager of that store directing traffic, where you probably have people on the floor worrying about organizing clothing, yet you've got 20 people who decided to come into your shop to purchase something, and now they're waiting in line. And I don't know about you, but I do know for me, my behavior is I absolutely struggle with people wasting my time. Now, my 16 year old has a little bit of that already as well. I'm sorry it's my fault, but she made the decision, and she goes. So we go to the first line that has 20 people in it. She sees one cashier, and she just goes, Dad, I'm not going to wait. Let's go upstairs. So we went upstairs, in the same environment. She goes, You know what? That I'm not going to purchase, I'm not going to wait. And she puts the product down and leaves. Now I gotta believe Chad that that same experience has happened multiple times in that store where the person walks out doesn't purchase, and the whole idea for them to have a retail space was for them to purchase, because alternatively, people could purchase online, right? So then the second experience was we went into the large cosmetic place, and again, same ball, hour, 30 minutes between time, crazy line, crazy lines of people. Places packed, and they've got multiple cashiers going. But here was the difference, as we pull up into the line, and we're waiting in line, somebody comes over from someplace else in the store and says, are you ready to check out? Yes. They pull that individual out of line, and they take them to a place where they could check them out. So then we move up in line. The three lines, or forecast years are still going we're standing there. Somebody else comes up and does the same thing to us. Now, what's the difference? The difference is leadership. The difference is how the individual who was hired to run that store is running that store, number one from a store perspective. And then number two is how the people who are working at the store have been trained and LED. And people would say, Well, Pat, you don't understand, we can't find people at $15 to $20 an hour, that's an excuse, because if you can't find people, then you should get the heck out of business, because you're costing yourself money because you're not leading. You don't have the right people leaving. Those are leadership issues. My job as a leader is to direct traffic, and if my traffic is in the wrong place, I better move it, because the customers are sitting right in front of me, and they're getting frustrated that they can't just give me my money. And to me, that's just crazy, but that's training. I can guarantee you that that's training, and the training is the second piece. I gotta find talent, but I also have to train them. But the fact of the matter is even sometimes with the right behavioral style in those leadership roles, even if they don't have all of the training, they have a perspective of owning that business. And that's something when you talk with people, when you go on this journey with the high. Hearing what comes out as part of that process. And so I think that answered your question. Yeah,

Chad Franzen 25:06

I think so. So in terms of systems and behavioral assessments, we're going to get into those in maybe a future conversation. But what are some general elements of a system that should be in place that you find that a lot of people that you talk to, maybe don't fully understand or or lack

Pat Mancuso 25:23

So the first one, and I already mentioned this, is that just by simply using the word candidate in the journey of hiring somebody, you minimize or bring down the bias. If I, if they're a candidate, then that means I haven't selected them yet. Like, I know this is going to be crazy for some people, but we're in the middle of election season, right? And so we've got two candidates. Well, we're not going to select one until we vote on November 5. So the fact of the matter is, that there, we're going to use the word candidate in our process to minimize or reduce bias. Number two, we actually have a process that we follow that we don't circumvent or skip or jump in the process. We don't, you know, not do the reference part of our process because we really love the candidate. And then it's really important. And then the three. And this is a really big one, and it's a hard one for people to fathom. But again, you asked me this earlier, and I would just tell you this, if somebody says to me they don't have the time to do it, I can assure you I can leverage it to somebody else. Because again, the cost if, if, let's just say, hypothetically, okay, and I'm just, I'm this is how I think, and this is how we coach business owners to think and consult with them. If you have a position, and it's a $50,000 leadership position, the cost of that bad hire in that position is half a million dollars. And you might go, Well, how could it be a half a million dollars? Real easy. Let's say the individual is the right individual, and they do something and that something causes a lawsuit. You get sued for half a million dollars. Now, how much was the cost of the bad hire? Way more than a half a million bucks. People, you know, they don't see things like this, but let's just say that the cost of that bad hire is a half million dollars. And you say to me, Well, Pat, I don't have the time to do it. And I say, well, Chad, you actually can't afford not to do it, but I understand you personally don't have the time. So what if you hired us to do that process for you, until you get to the point where you could do that? Now, we're not going to cost a half a million dollars. We are going to have an investment in but we're also going to produce a return on investment, because we're going to bring you great candidates. So the other thing is, candidates. You've heard me say, candidate candidates. One of the great parts about the process, when it's implemented properly is you're going to get to the end and you're going to have multiple candidates. If you do it the right way and you pay the price of patients during the process, you're going to have more than one candidate. Now the important part of that is when you have two amazing individuals, one is likely going to rise a little bit higher to the top than the other, not saying you wouldn't hire number two. But what if you get through this entire process? Number One goes, Yeah, Chad, so sorry, I accepted another position for $50,000 more than you were willing to pay me, and you only had one candidate that would just absolutely be a bummer in our process. We always want to encourage that business owner to have enough lead generation, enough candidate creation, so that they're bringing multiple candidates through the process in that they can, at the end, have more than one to choose from, in case one doesn't accept that position. And that leads to the next piece, when do most people decide they want to hire when they need to? And what we teach business owners is that they always should be looking to hire. They always should be building a bench. They always should be looking for candidates. Because there's a saying I haven't, there's never a shortage of opportunity, only a shortage of talent. And what that means is that, let's say you own a let's say you own a marketing agency, and you want to grow. Well, there's two ways to grow. You can either grow your lead generation. You can grow by adding more clients, or you can go acquire a company and add their clients. Now, if you go to acquire a company, you might need more talent than you have right now, because you look at the talent leading that other organization, and there's not enough. So if you had bench talent, if you had talent that you're in a process with and you're having conversations with, you now have way more choices to make than without having that process beyond going so we encourage people and teach business owners to to have this process ongoing. Now it looks a little bit different if they don't have an active open position. But how many businesses right now do you go to, if you went on the web, have open, active positions, all of them?

Chad Franzen 30:01

Yeah. So the process, how do you, how do you without having an opening, continuously recruit good candidates? Yeah, great

Pat Mancuso 30:10

question. So remember, I said, there's never a shortage of opportunity, only a shortage of talent, right? So I came across great talent. I'll find an opportunity for them. I'll find a way, if they're the right people, to get in business with them. I absolutely positively will find a way, if I'm thinking as a business owner who's defined that end destination, remember, this is all about what's my end destination? Why did I get in the business in the first place? And once I define that, now there's going to be certain pieces that I need to add. I'm going to need to grow. If I start my business today, and I'm making $200,000 I'm not going to retire on $200,000 I can assure you. But if I want to get my business to 10,000,005 years from now, and I'm at a million today. Well, I can lay out that roadmap, and I can assure you, talent acquisition and opportunity acquisition are going to be two parts of that. To get to that 10 million, you could likely not grow organically enough to go to one to 10 in five years. It should. I'm not saying it's impossible, because it's happened, but for a lot of small to medium sized businesses in what they do, like, it'd be hard for a landscape company to go from a million to 10 million in five years without likely adding a company like an acquisition. So opportunities are always there. They're always there. We're

Chad Franzen 31:41

going to let more into the system in an upcoming conversation, let's talk a little bit more about the behavioral assessment. What kind of behaviors are you, you know, trying to get a handle on as you evaluate candidates and decide if they're a good fit? Yeah,

Pat Mancuso 31:56

you know. So without getting super technical, because we're not going to do that. And actually we have behavioral scientists who evaluate, prepare, basically produce the results for us in English. But we have, we have four, what we call vectors of behavior, and I'm going to kind of simplify them for terms of common language. But if you think of a behavioral zone that's either responsible for results, they're direct, they're decisive, they take charge, and then you think of the opposite of that behavioral zone. They don't need to be in charge. They don't want to be in charge. They don't want to be responsible for results. That's an example of of one of our behavioral zones, and again, if they're high aggressive, high assertive, high take charge, high direct versus low in those areas, it doesn't make low right or wrong, bad or good, and it doesn't even necessarily make the individual who might be low in those behavioral characteristics, unable to perform in a leadership role or lead an organization. It doesn't mean that there's always exceptions to the rule. Remember, human beings are imperfect, but there are some things in our belief that if, for example, they're not that high, direct, decisive demand, take charge, results orientated. They may struggle a little bit in leading an organization. In some ways, they may not but behaviorally, commonly. If you assess large, small, medium organizations of people who are running them, they're going to have a certain common characteristic in that behavioral zone, not 100% true, but they're going to have some common characteristics. The second behavioral zone that we talk about is what we call sociability, which is, you know, how do people interact with other people? How do they succeed through other people? How do they have conversations with other people? Sometimes people reference this as an introvert, extrovert, we don't. That's not our language. But what happens, though, is that these behavioral zones, you know, they either will be better or allow people to perform at a higher level, depending upon where they are in the zone. So let me give you an example. If you have somebody who is low sociability, again, doesn't mean right and wrong, bad or good. It just means that they're not the wallflower at the party. They're not the one that walks into a room of 50 people and needs to introduce themselves to everybody. In fact, they really are probably not super excited about being at a party with 50 people. Doesn't mean they won't go. Doesn't mean they won't be amazing individuals at the party, but they won't need to go meet everybody, and again, have a little fun with high social beings. Highly sociable people will want to go to the meeting. They'll want to meet everybody, greet everybody, and if they don't get a chance to say hi to everybody at the party, they'll walk home that night and they go, Oh my gosh, why didn't Bob say hi to me? And now I'm having a little fun, right? But the point. Is that you want somebody that's got low sociability in a sales position or high sociability? You likely want somebody who is mid to higher because they're going to have to interact with a lot of people. They're going to have to understand how to interact with different behavioral zones. So that's our second behavioral zone, if you may. Our third is what we call calmness. Then that calmness is, how much of a sense of urgency do they have to get things done and accomplished? Now that doesn't mean if somebody doesn't have a high sense of urgency, they're not amazing talent, because the opposite is true if they have what it's so so we have, we say it's low calmness, so they have no patience, and they have high calmness, which means they have a high patience tolerance level. But that also goes to they have a high need for detail, for structure, where that law of calmness doesn't necessarily need that. They just need a little bit of information to be able to make the decision and go. And then the fourth behavioral zone is what we call conformity. And conformity is, how do they think in terms of structure? Are they a person that needs to stay inside the guardrails, inside the box, or can they think outside the box? Can they think in terms of, you know, that is the structure, but what if, and again, does it make it right or bad or good. You know, do you want a CPA or an accountant that stays within the guardrail, stays within processes, procedures, or thinks big picture? We can just plug numbers in. You get the point. That doesn't make a lot of sense. But again, if I am thinking big picture, I am not going to be a great person to be in an accounting role for a long period of time. Now that doesn't mean, you know, for example, that if I'm that outside the box thinker, that I don't understand financials, or that I don't understand what they mean. That is not true the skill level. But the point is, is that each one of those behavioral zones, and we in our world, there's going to be a high and a low, which means those are just strength zones. I'm going to lead with a high and lead with a low. And so in my case, I am high, direct, decisive, results orientated, and patient. So I want to get things done and I want to get them done yesterday. Again, a great skill to have in certain areas, but then there's blind spots with that behavior as well. So those are our four vectors, we call them, and we have a fifth vector, more complicated to get into for our conversation, but basically it does help us measure things in terms of that individual, how principal they are, how standard they stick to, you know, passionate they are about the things that they believe, which sometimes impacts organizations as well. And

Chad Franzen 37:40

can those not only be used to determine how well somebody could fill a role, but also maybe fit in with the team? Oh, absolutely.

Pat Mancuso 37:47

Yeah, we do that. We bring all the behavior together for the organization, and it allows us to see where blind spots are or gaps are in the organization, and what it also does in your referencing the conversation I had yesterday with this client, we have then they have an individual who's struggling to perform, and so as I was talking with them, I pulled out their behavior. As I was having the conversation with them, I went, Well, it's not hard to see why they're struggling with this individual versus this individual. The one individual they weren't struggling with was the identical behavior that they were because they were reporting to two individuals, which was not to beat up this individual. It's the way that it's been structured, and that's why they brought us in. But it's hard to report to two individuals. It's even harder to report to two individuals when they're two different behavioral styles. So it wasn't difficult for me at all, as is kind of stepping outside of it to see that? Well, the reason they're getting along with individual A is they're the same behavioral style. They like each other, they like the way they talk, they like the pace at which they talk, all those things. And the reason they were struggling with the other behavioral style was it was completely the opposite of theirs. Now, it wasn't that individual's fault that it was actually the employee's issue, but the point was, those two will handle those situations in different ways without commenting.

Chad Franzen 39:05

Hey, Pat. It's been great to talk to you today. I'll look forward to future conversations where we can dive deeper into, you know, what goes into having a system and things like that for effective hiring. Thanks so much for having me today,

Pat Mancuso 39:16

though. Yeah, thanks, Chad. We're just so excited about the impact we get to have on people, and it's amazing to watch them once these systems are implemented and they start using them and utilizing them and just the impact they have on themselves and their organization. So thanks so much. I appreciate you joining me today, and we'll look forward to sharing the second part in our series next time we talk.

Chad Franzen 39:38

Okay. Thank you So long everybody.

Outro 39:40

Thank you for joining Destination Business Freedom with Pat Mancuso, may the insights and strategies shared guide you towards financial prosperity and personal freedom. Continue to navigate boldly until next time, keep transforming challenges into achievements. Farewell and stay the course. You.

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